Hello World

What role do makerspaces play in the classroom?

• Raspberry Pi Foundation • Season 3 • Episode 1

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We're back for a new season of the Hello World podcast, with six episodes exploring computing and digital making with our amazing guests.

To kick things off, this week Carrie Anne and James discuss the role of maker spaces within schools and explore what it is that makes a space, a maker space!

Full show notes:
https://helloworld.raspberrypi.org/articles/what-role-do-makerspaces-play-in-the-classroom

Carrie Anne Philbin:

Welcome to Hello World a podcast for educators, interested in Computing, and digital making. I'm Carrie Anne Philbin, a Computing educator, content creator, YouTuber, and lover of blinky lights, and smell of laser cut. Balsa wood.

James Robinson:

And I'm hope James Robinson, a Computing educator passionate maker and adult fan of Lego. I'm working on projects, promoting effective pedagogy within the subject such as our recently published big book of computing pedagogy, which is available digitally for free at helloworld.cc/bigbook. If you want to support our show then subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a five star review.

Carrie Anne Philbin:

Today I have a cold but that doesn't matter, we're still gonna have a great show talking about makerspaces. What are they? What role do they play in the classroom? So James, I don't know how familiar you are with maker spaces. But what's what's your description of a Makerspace?

James Robinson:

Ooo, that's a really interesting question, I think that for me a Makerspace is I mean, as the name suggests, it's a space for making things in, but it's also it's a place for creativity for Community. It's a place for a group of like-minded individuals to come together and make interesting and exciting stuff to kind of apply that that passion and their energy to make interesting stuff. And I think what's really interesting is that typically a makerspace or lots of the many makerspaces that I've been in or experienced or seen combine lots of different materials Technologies, crafts and really kind of provide a really great intersection of lots of different disciplines and skills. And I think there's a really kind of nice idea of seeing kind of computing and computing devices as a material just like your, you know, your sellotape, or your cardboard, or balsa wood, or whatever. And I think that a Makerspace is a really great place to see some of that, actually, all those things come together. I did have a very small Makerspace in my classroom, it was literally metre and a half by three metres, little kind of cubby at the back of the classroom, where we had some computers, and some Pis, and some circuit boards and some craft materials. And it would just be an area where occasionally, you know kids would go back there and use it to make something interesting. How about you Carrie Anne, I know. We've got a makerspace at work which your you love to frequent but what other experiences of makerspaces do you have?

Carrie Anne Philbin:

I frequent it regularly. Probably because I didn't have a Makerspace at school, right? My Makerspace I think was probably just the draw in my desk. Probably the biggest draw in my desk, that was full of as you've described kind of small circuitry, lots of jumper wires, LEDs Like there's no tomorrow resistors of which had fallen out of any sort of packet that described what type of resistor they were. So I became very familiar at reading bands and just a mess really. Probably because that's how my mind works. But full of intention, right? Intention to do something quick, simple in between lessons. Maybe I was working with a student, like I pulled something out because we were developing an idea. Typically it was something that we would look at lunchtime or after school. It probably didn't really form big parts of my lessons, but there was now that nothing really exciting like a laser cutter, which is what we have, in our, you know, make space or 3D printer or anything like that. It was very on the, on the kind of bottom end of like, craft skills and so on, and probably much like yours. I imagine more for me than for for the students, right?

James Robinson:

Yeah. I think that's true. I really like how you've retro labeled, your sort of drawer of doom, where things went to kind of collect, as a maker space that's a sort of retconning of what I was there.

Carrie Anne Philbin:

I have been sussed out

James Robinson:

But yeah, I mean what's your within our maker space that we have at the office? What's your your favorite feature or tool or piece of equipment in there?

Carrie Anne Philbin:

Yeah. I mean the laser cutter is like my go-to. There's just so much I can do with it. And I'd also say this sewing machine is probably my second go to that's in the Makerspace and it's something that people often ask me about when I'm in there using it. So yeah, they're probably the two, mostly because I have ideas of things I want to do and I know how I can achieve them with those two tools. What we don't have, and I would love is like a wood turning machine where you can do carving, but that is not something I have yet come across.

James Robinson:

Yeah. I think I think the laser cut is probably my one of my favorites as well. And I think partly because the things that I can imagine, it's very easy once you know how to use the tool to kind of bring those to life. Whereas I find some of the other tools. I haven't quite kind of mastered them so that like the idea that I have in my head doesn't necessarily come to life when I use like a 3D printer, for example. It kind of like it's a bit burred or the quality's not great. But the laser cutter, I feel like I've got like a really reproduce things really easily in that in that form it's super accurate.

Carrie Anne Philbin:

It's a lathe! It's called a lathe, right? I've just remembered the right name for the tool I'm trying to describe. Well, luckily people don't have to listen to us kind of talking about our all vague relation to a Makerspace, when I think of makerspaces there are two Individuals that immediately spring to mind and we're so lucky today that both of them are joining us on this podcast. So Nicholas Provenzano is a teacher and Makerspace director, at university Liggett School in Michigan. He's also an author, He literally wrote the book on makerspaces, he is a Makerspace Builder, international keynote speaker, Raspberry Pi Certified Educator in good friend of ours, and I'm so excited that he's here to talk to us. Welcome Nicolas. What is a maker space? Have we really done a poor job of describing a Makerspace? And why do you think they play such an important role in formal education?

Nick Provenzano:

Yeah. Thanks for having me here. It's so great to be a part of this conversation because I think the more we talk about makerspaces, the more we can normalize having them in educational spaces. So, right off the bat, something that stood out to me that James said, was about like-minded people coming together to do these things. And I love that idea of like-minded people, but sometimes we have to remind what like-minded even means and you can have people that love to sew and use their sewing machine or love to knit sitting right next to people that are coding a Pi robot to do something. And I think that's what's so powerful about the space is that it encourages diversity and creativity and that too often we try to label things. And when we label things, we start to exclude and I think making is one of the most inclusive activities in the world because everyone is a creator. And that's what's so great, and so when we talk about what a Makerspace is Gary Stager, who's a great author, great proponent of creativity says "the best maker spaces between your two ears". And that's sort of like this idea that sometimes educators don't get started with the idea of making because they think I don't have a space and so they think that's where it ends where if I don't have a space, therefore, I can't do this. And so one of the things that I'm an advocate for is the idea of a maker mentality. Is that if you have that belief that pedagogical belief about what making is, everywhere is a Makerspace. And if we look at our primary grades, the entire room is a makerspace. The way that our young educational systems, around the world are setup in kindergarten, so 6th, 7th 8th graders. It's all about creating and making and learning. And so I always talk to those young Pre-K primary teachers and say, you're the original makerspace creator's, the original makerspace directors. Like, you've been managing art supplies, craft supplies for decades. And then the rest of us older people that teach older grades look at that and finally acting as if this is a brand new idea. I'm going to create a room that's full of crafts and full of tools and the kids are going to demonstrate their understanding with them. And it's it's funny because it's not a new idea, right? And a lot of things that education just sort of cycle through like a new idea and then it's an old idea, people forget and they bring it back. And making is one of those ones, at least in the American educational system that was very important. And then as the country moved more towards testing, a lot of those maker style classes, woodshop, electronics were just tossed the side because they couldn't be assessed in a multiple-choice style assessment. So now we're seeing a return to this. And so when I showcase the space at our school to parents, a lot of them will say "oh, I had this in school, it was wood shop, it was so great" and you know, and "my wood shop teacher be so jealous that you have a CNC machine or that you have a laser cutter here". And so when I share the space to parents, I usually call it would shop 2.0 to some degree, because a lot of those things that we did back in the day. Like I said, are now happening and parents, are all for it, because that's the educational experience that they had and the skill sets that you learn, what we might call soft skills, or life skills are so fundamentally important. So for all of the people out there that look around their school and don't have any room. Your makerspace could be a cart. It can be the drawer in your desk like Carrie Anne had that just has all those supplies. And especially with the advances in digital making, you know, it could be just some devices and kids can code and create digitally as well without the need for a gigantic space. So I think the diversity in what makerspaces look like is the most important thing to share with people because I always tell people that if you try to recreate my makerspace, it's probably going to fail because your students deserve a space that meets their needs and my students deserve a space that meets their needs and trying to replicate that is tough long term.

James Robinson:

There's a huge amount to unpack there Nick, you've said so much. I think you'll clearly very passionate about this. Well, something that really kind of struck a chord with me was the idea that of the inclusive nature of making and that maker mentality. And the fact that, you know, in the modern times we might think about makerspaces as having all of these fancy tools, your CNC machines your laser cutters, your 3D printers, but actually the inclusive nature of making means that, you know, regardless of the tool that you are using the technology, how advanced it is. As long as you're making something, you're welcome. Your part of, of that, that community of makers and I think that's something really powerful and welcoming. Also joining us today is Chris Hillidge assistant principal at Beaumount Collegiate Academy, where he's also founder, and director of Fablab Warrington, which had been serving the local community since 2016. Great to have you with us today Chris, can you tell us a little bit more about how Fablab Warrington came about?

Chris Hillidge:

Thanks very much James. So we started on this journey along the to the Fablab. Probably about seven years ago. The school that I work in is part of a trust, but my particular school is situated in an area of particular low, socio-economic deprivation and we're surrounded by tech and stem industries, but what we weren't seeing was many of our children, moving on to those careers. They didn't have the networks within the within their families, within their personal networks, in order to support them to get into those careers. So we looked at what we could do in order to put some steps in place for that to happen and support more of our children into kind of high-value rewarding stem careers. So where we started was with the CoderDojo organisation. Which is, you know, worldwide now, but we started very small, as you mentioned before. With things like kids coding scratch, kids coding on physical Computing, of various kinds, with about six kids in a room, so, it's very much an organic process. As we developed the Dojo got bigger and bigger, we brought in far more technology to kind of hook as many children as we could. So virtual reality and drone technology, 3D printing. And this was great, the kids were loving it and there was, you know, we get about 150 kids once a month into the school, you know the vibe was amazing and it was a really positive atmosphere around the Dojo. But what we weren't really seeing were the professionals that we wanted to interact with our teachers. And with our students who could kind of upskill and that kind of idea of cross-fertilization from the professionals who work in an industry to work with our students. So we looked at what we could do and what we thought would be would be useful would be a community resource brought the best of the dojo but also brought in some kind of digital fabrication as well. So we took a while planning it, and it like most things, it started small. And it's kind of snowballed into quite a big affair now, but we started with some 3D printers and we work with the kids and slowly but surely we got more and more small and medium enterprises coming in wanting to use, 3D printers, wanting to use the laser cutter. So we put some bids together and we bought a large bed CNC (machine) and that brought a whole different audience in because was probably of it size, one of very few that are available to the public. Before we knew it, we had a community and we've referred back to a community already in our conversation. Because for me, that's what the Fab Lab is all about it's a community of different people. Some will be kids from the school, some will be locals who are interested in making and creating some will be from businesses. Some will be professionals who want to give something back to an organisation. And before, you know it, you've got a, you know, a really good mixture of people in a building surrounded by equipment. You know, everything from your hand tools, your basic hand tools through to creative stuff, around printing t-shirts, or drone technology, or the CNC. And the projects that have come from that have been absolutely amazing. And it's one of those things that's, I can't remember the phrase, but it's much more than a sum of its sum of its parts if you will.

Carrie Anne Philbin:

And so what what are the benefits of having, you know, a small maker space or a large make space like you have with the Fab Lab Warrington from both of yours perspective? What are the benefits that you're seeing for your students?

Chris Hillidge:

So the benefits that we see in is the continual development and understanding of, you know, the opportunities within stem for our students, you know, that's that was the main driver why we kind of got going with this process in the first place. And the idea that stem and those kind of skills and the soft skills that that Nick mentioned earlier, reach into every aspect of our life. And the more the more time that our children can spend with, you know, informed teachers well-informed teachers and professionals from industry that the better, their skill set will be and not just the skill set around stem and technology and using a CNC for example, but also those other softer skills around influence and getting your ideas across and communicated. Those are what we've really seen develop and especially in in partnership with some of our industry, you know our friends in industry as well. It's been, you know, it's been quite a journey for the school and for the children as well.

Nick Provenzano:

For me, when I started at my current position at my school, my number one thing was to increase the number of girls and students of color that were involved in the STEAM initiative, that I was really rolling out from scratch. And the studies will show you it's where we are in our grades of about ages. 10 11, 12 13 is when girls start to shift away from the Sciences because it's viewed as what's a boy thing, and I'm going to focus more on the Arts. So I was at a critical spot where I knew like this is the time, and if I lose them here, they're gone as they advance into their other grades, it's very tough to get them back. And so, one of my base initiatives, was just a create, an atmosphere that was welcoming to everyone. There's this myth that you need, pink tools, and jewelry making supplies to encourage girls to use makerspaces or to utilize these things, and it's just insulting. Like, it's a I've had even girls in class say how insulting it is like they saw an ad and it was selling pink tools and it showed girls, like, "why does the color of the tool matter?" And I said, it doesn't, it doesn't at all obviously, but what was really good about this space as one allowing them to feel that they belong in that they had access to the same tools as everyone else. If they wanted to use the mitre saw, they could use the mitre saw, absolutely. And what was even better is that when older students came down to use the space. And so when I had girls that were 11, 12 grade so 17, 18 years old, these younger girls were seeing them, use the space and they could see themselves, right? And that's what you want to see. And all of this work has led to our robotics team at the middle school being led by girl coders and girl drivers and we won the competition that we had on Sunday with an all-girls driven team. And it just it makes my heart so happy because it was just a diverse group of girls and girls of color involved in STEM and STEAM. The mentors were the high school girls that were supporting them. It was like, this beautiful, like end cap to like, a five-year process to see what is possible and all I did was just give kids access to materials and made them feel like they belong. And so, when we talk about inclusivity, we have to think about those underrepresented groups, who just don't see themselves. But now I've got a collection of young, ladies, that will be able to inspire younger students that they can do it. And that's my biggest takeaway so far about the value of a space like this. As we looked at really diversify these fields, as you said that, we just don't see the same type of representation as we would like.

Chris Hillidge:

Yeah. Absolutely, just to echo what Nick has said, we were in a similar but different situation from the idea of kind of socio-economic deprivation, but getting kind of more girls interested in to into STEM. And like you say that age of 11, 12 13 is absolutely key time to kind of hook their interest. And we, you know, we tried and failed several times to kind of increase the number of girls who are involved in STEM stuff and it was a real challenge. And then one of the projects that we were doing, we were contacted by a local family, whose son has been born with a shoterned forearm. And they had a 3D print file for a prosthetic but no way to produce it. So we produce it for them and that kind of flipped a switch in a lot of a lot of kids, kids who wouldn't necessarily be interested in STEM because they could see the actual real-world value of it. Of you know, the technology and the idea of this rapid prototyping that you go from something that's up on the screen to something that's tangible. and you can hold in your hand within, you know, within a few hours. And I think that really made it that made a real shift for us in terms of the number of girls that we had involved in STEM.

Carrie Anne Philbin:

I've been fortunate enough to visit your Fablab. You had DojoCon there a few years ago and what really inspired me was that that the talk and the presentation of the FabLab was given by young people who were running workshops for other people in that FabLab space, and it really kind of blew me away because not only were they kind of learning those STEM skills that you've talked about, but they were also learning skills that they can use in life. Like, they were demonstrating leadership skills and they were presenting, and they told me the story that you've just told me about the prosthetic limb 3D printing, which was amazing. So that must give you a lot of pride as well in your community that you are sort of building leaders in this space.

Chris Hillidge:

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's an opportunity for a different kind of kid to shine in school as well I think is really important. You know, I like sports and there are lots of kids who do like sports, but I think sometimes those kids get plenty of celebration. The football team wins and everybody knows about it. But then what we've also got in the background is kids, who've got some skills and talents around technology and STEM and might be quietly getting on with it, in their bedrooms coding. And I remember speaking to a year 11 boy, 16 year old, who was just about to leave school, very quiet lad. And I'd wanted him to get involved in the Dojo, I didn't think you knew much about computers, but he was a nice kid who wanted to kind of bring out of her shell a bit. What he told me is that for the past couple of years have been coding mods for Minecraft and making about 1,000 pound a month and it was earning as much as some of the staff in the school from what he already knew. And that kind of blew me away, the fact that here's a lad who's clearly got some enterprise skills. He's clearly got some get up and go and we kind of missed that and that kind of made it kind of really concrete. To get more of those kids involved and get them in front of in front of people.

Nick Provenzano:

Yeah, just to echo that, there are so many kids who feel like they don't belong in school because the things that they like are not part of the traditional curriculum. And just, like you said, I have kids, when we roll out Minecraft in our design class that are just wizards and the quietest of kids like, oh, "I just spent, you know, a few hours rebuilding the school", like here's our school in minecraft. And what's great about makerspaces, is that it allows all of those kids to feel like they belong in the school. And that's one of the things that I think is so important about these spaces whether they're in the community because the school's can't or won't put together a space like this or whether it is in the school, it validates those kids. And I've had girls come in and just knit and that's what they wanted to do. And they're like, this is the only place you have yarn and we're just going to knit and I'm like awesome and, you know what's great about it is that it's one of the things we don't talk about in general in education, but that maker ed really supports his mental health. So many of us create as a way to cope and I know I do all the time and I get lost in my workshop and I'm just like covered in sawdust and end with a project and I'm just like, oh, I just worked out some stuff. Didn't I. And students are the same way and there are so many that have come down like "I'm just coming down to draw, colour, paint, work with the Play-Doh, whatever it is. And I think that's another thing that we're starting to see especially coming out of lockdowns. How many kids needed the space to create as a way to work through some things that they were going through.

James Robinson:

That's a really important point Nick I think. You know what you say is so, so true many, many of us who make they do that to support mental health to, you know, to go somewhere to occupy their hands, making something and the whole time your brain's kind processing the day or reflecting on other things. And you can make many breakthroughs, just because you're sitting there making and crafting something and your brain is just free to kind of wander, I think, is yeah. What both of you have talked a little bit about is the kind of the softer skills and the role models that we're creating and almost a sense that once you kind of establish this community, this mentality, this ethos in your in your community. It becomes kind of a self-perpetuating right? Because you you create the role models that then are going to inspire the next kind of cohort of learners the next part of your community. And then you going to get people that really want to come to your Makerspace, but you haven't got this tool or this setup or this activity and then you go and buy that and then it's just this sort of constantly kind of snowballing and expanding kind of thing. I had a question for both of you which I didn't actually share beforehand, but I was curious. How do you utilize the maker spaces within the curriculum? Are they sort of, you know, part of formal curriculum, do people, students have timetable lessons in them. Is it solely? extracurricular activity? And I would be interested if there are sort of differences between like, you know, you and your two different educational systems. So who wants to answer that first.

Nick Provenzano:

I could I get a jump on that one. So as part of our space, one of the things that they really wanted, they the school really wanted me to do was to create a class that utilized the space. And I had some very strong opinions on what this class would look like and stipulations. And one is that it wasn't going to be a makerspace class. This wasn't a classroom going to teach a kid to use a 3D printer.I wasn't going to teach a kid to do these things. It was going to be focused on design, critical thinking, problem solving, and I primarily use the design thinking model, but also the engineering design model with the kids. Because it's all about problem solving because those are skills that are applicable in other content areas. Plus, I firmly believe that not every single student wants to 3D print. Like that's just, you know, you don't and some kids, you know, will want to 3D print and they'll learn to 3D print because its intrinsic, right? So part of it, for me was, I am not teaching a makerspace class. I'm teaching a problem-solving, design thinking type class. The second part was that I refused to to grade anything that will happen in the class. There were no grades and I said, the main reason for this, is that how do you grade problem solving, how do you grade creativity? You know. That's yes, we can do better but giving a letter grade to something, just felt so wrong and really and antithetical to what we're trying to teach kids. So you have to try something, even if it fails, it's okay. Like you're going to try again. And so I was surprised when they agreed to by stipulations because it's not normal education, right? That's just not the traditional style. "What do you mean? You're not going to give grades?" Look, they're just not going to get them and that's fine. They get recognized for completing the assignment for us, against all of the benchmarks. And what I have found immediately is that kids will try over and over and over again, when there aren't grades and parents, are shocked by this as well. And when I asked the kids, why are you still going at this? They said well because it doesn't matter if it doesn't work. I can just try again and that's it because that's real life like, right? Like if you've been tasked by your employer to solve a problem. You don't do it once and then go well, not it you go. Well going into the next thing that's that's not real life. You try until you get, you get the feedback you try over and over again. So it's part of our curriculum, the sense that every single student will take this design class and their time through the middle school and then the other classes, as we are project-based, learning school will utilize the space as part of those projects as well. So kids will come to me with different projects, I had a seventeen-year-old come to me with a laser cutter project for her Swedish romanticism of Greek history project, which is just the weirdest funniest fake sounding project I've ever heard.

Carrie Anne Philbin:

That just rolls off the tongue

Nick Provenzano:

Right? But she was. She's like, I remember using the laser cutter a few years ago, and I thought it'd be perfect for this assignment. So she came down and remembered how to use it. And that's what you want to do. With this space is to give kids options to demonstrate their understanding.

Chris Hillidge:

Yeah, I completely agree with everything Nick just said, I think the idea of a, not a normal education space, if you will, is really important. I mean, since you visited us Carrie Anne, we've actually moved into a larger space now, still on the same site, but we've expanded quite a bit. So we've got like an e-sports space as well, that we're kind of introducing, and the students will have a lessons in that space during the day with surrounded by the 3D printers and the CNC. So you've got that kind of informal exposure to those to those technologies and all the traditional, you know, the more traditional tools and things like that. And then we use them for the projects. And then in the afternoons it's a public space as well. So we have people coming in, members of the public or SMEs coming in working with their own projects. So that's where you get the cross fertilization. Now, the idea of a not normal education sometimes can be a bit a little bit scary because the idea of having the public interacting with students is something that needs to be managed really carefully. But we've, I think we've got a really good balance and that idea of, as Nick just mentioned, our students seeing people working on projects and trying different iterations. Seeing it fail, going back to try something different. And what they've also seen is people who come in with an idea on a sketch piece of paper, you know, they've turned that into a cad file. They've created a prototype. They've got some backing for the prototype and eventually it seen that go through to products on the market. And for kids who've been there, you know, and seeing that happen over two years that's an incredibly kind of powerful process. The idea that somebody's got an idea and they turned it into a business at the end of it. And that's that shared space in the afternoons where you've got the cross fertilization. You've got some of our kids working on their projects, you've got some public and local businesses working on their projects. You might have e-sports tuition in another room. You might have some people coding in another room, kids can informally, it's difficult. I think sometimes for a kid to to kind of start a new class and think, "well, I want to learn to code. I want to learn to do this...". It's quite a big barrier if you know nothing about it, but when it's other kids working in the same space and you've got older older, kids who've got some talent, They're much more comfortable asking one of them to help them with a project or to help them to show how it works, you know, they're comfortable with doing that. They do it all the time, when they're playing Fifa for or COD online, they learn little hacks and tips from each other from YouTube. And that's where they, you know, they build up the knowledge in a much more informal and self-led way and you know, there's a big push from schools in developing this idea of self regulation and self starting learners. And the makerspace, you know, teaches that to kids in spades because, you know, they realize that a lot of the information is out there. They just need to pull it towards themselves.

James Robinson:

There's been some really interesting reflections over the course of our conversation and Chris and Nick about about what makerspaces are and how you utilize them. For those that are listening and are maybe inspired by what we're talking about. Where can teachers find out more? What's the first steps? They should take if they're interested in creating a Makerspace in their school.

Nick Provenzano:

Well, I know it seems kind of crazy answer, but I have a book it's called "your starter guide to makerspaces". It's I hate that I feel so awful I said it, because ultimately the first thing you should really really do before even diving into books and stuff like that is look around on the internet in terms of what you have in your community. So that's the first thing you want to do. So if you can make Community connections, you always want to do that first. If you are connected through Twitter, Instagram and things like that, take a look at what other educators are doing. I love connecting with people that are just starting their maker space exploration and just reach out to me and say, hey, I have some ideas and I love trading emails and tweets and stuff like that back and forth. The book that I wrote was based on my first attempt at building a maker space, as a person that spent 15 years as a language arts teacher, and so not even in the stem field. So it's really designed for the people that don't know what they were doing because I didn't know what I was doing. So "your starter guide to makerspaces" was all about that, what worked, and what didn't work. So that's a great place to start. But also just reaching out to Educators and makers online. The maker community I have found is one of the most helpful communities in the education sphere. Because they all believe the same mission which is like "the more makers the better for all of us".

James Robinson:

That's a great answer, thanks Nick. And you don't have to be shy about recommending your book. If you are, I'll personally recommend it, it's a great read. Chris. How about you? What's your kind of thoughts of this? What's your recommendation?

Chris Hillidge:

Everything that Nick said? I mean, he wrote the book after all, so I think, but I think one of the lessons that I've learned from working within kind of the British education system is a couple of things, one is to get the support of the leadership within the school. And two, get some good publicity early on because schools love good publicity. And when you inevitably, you know, you will try lots of different things. Some will work, some will fail and celebrate those successes make the absolute most of those successes and bringing, as many people on that success as you can, because as we all know, success attract success, doesn't it? And I think that, you know, small wins become snowballed into bigger wins. I think also start relatively organically, think about what small things you can do at the beginning and you'll they'll be a myriad of avenues off that. You know, you'll have kids who're interested in one thing. You might have some adults in the school who want to run something else and let it grow go the way it goes. It's difficult to control those things sometimes because you might spend a fortune on a piece of equipment that nobody's that interested in. So I think start small and celebrate your successes would be my be my mantra.

Carrie Anne Philbin:

We thought it would be fun to ask you our listeners to share with us an image of your Makerspace. However, big or small and we'll share them in our shownotes going forward, showing us whatever equipment, you have and however you use it.

James Robinson:

And we had a realized contribution from Sarah Jenkins who's from Rosebank Primary School in Dundee. And she shared some lovely images of her brand-new makerspace that they've been working on for a little while. And I was I was really particularly drawn to this, as it included a Lego wall for creativity in the Makerspace, that was great.

Carrie Anne Philbin:

Yeah, that looks amazing and will definitely share these pictures so that you can see them. Send us your pictures, tell us how you and your learner's are using your Makerspace. What your favorite features and Equipment are. If you have a question for us or a comment about our discussion today and you can email via podcast@helloworld.cc, or you can tweet us @helloworld_edu. My thanks to Nicholas Provenzano and Chris Hillidge for sharing their experience with us today. You can read Oliver Quinlan's article, "digital making Educators a look into the community" in Issue 5 of, Hello World magazine. So James, what did we learn today?

James Robinson:

Something that I'm taking away from today's conversation is really that kind of inclusive community focus that is so evident within maker spaces in the maker Community. The fact that it's not about the technology, the tools, it's more about that passion and that shared focus on making. How about you?

Carrie Anne Philbin:

Well, I mean clearly it said I've been missing out and I should be attending e-sports class from now on and having a laser cutter in our maker space is not enough. I also want a lathe, I want something else, that's probably shiny and blinky and I want some sort of big e-sports style seat.